From: wxqc-request@lists.gladstonefamily.net
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 12:00:02 -0600
Subject: wxqc Digest, Vol 110, Issue 16
To: wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Temperature Inversions (Raymond C. Martin, Jr.)
2. Re: Temperature Inversions (Victor Engel)
3. Re: Temperature Inversions (Raymond C. Martin, Jr.)
4. Re: Temperature Inversions (Victor Engel)
5. Re: Temperature Inversions (Steve Brueck)
6. Power outage (Roy Clark)
7. Re: Temperature Inversions (Clay Jackson)
8. Re: Temperature Inversions (Raymond C. Martin, Jr.)
9. Re: Temperature Inversions (Victor Engel)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 10:08:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "Raymond C. Martin, Jr." <famartin1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID:
<1387735713.78136.YahooMailBasic@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
What do you mean by "map inversions"? There are often inversions at
various levels. If you just want to see observed atmospheric
profiles, I'd go here:
http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues"
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 8:37 AM
Ah, good question. I'm interested in
inversions that cause what I like
to call sound mirages, where sound is reflected by total
internal
reflection or refracted back to the ground. So which level
would be
most relevant? I'm guessing below a mile or so, probably
even below
1000 feet.
The cold front that blew through Austin yesterday seems to
have qualified.
Victor
On 12/22/13, Ted Lum <gladstonefamily37.net@tedlum.com>
wrote:
> What kind of stratification are you looking for? Five
and 30 feet AGL or
> 3000 to 9000 feet AGL?
>
> You might try aviation weather products like a winds
aloft forecast:
>
> http://aviationweather.gov/products/nws/ftworth
>
> On 12/21/2013 11:17 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
>> Thanks. Now if only it showed Texas instead of
Oklahoma. :)
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM, TJ <tjslagle@cox.net
>> <mailto:tjslagle@cox.net>>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://www.mesonet.org/index.php/weather/map/current_inversion_map/air_temperature
>>
>>? ???*From:*wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
>>? ???<mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
>>? ???[mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
>>? ???<mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>]
*On Behalf Of
>>? ???*Victor Engel
>>? ???*Sent:* Saturday, December
21, 2013 7:32 PM
>>? ???*To:* Discussion of weather
data quality issues
>>? ???*Subject:* [wxqc]
Temperature Inversions
>>
>>? ???Are there any websites that
map temperature inversions?
>>
>>? ???Victor
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 14:04:32 -0600
From: Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID:
<CAHLdQkkvyV28EQ8oS7S1x9-D7LFNAw_Z1_wzW=H31_HkgHBKsw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Map was a verb in my original post. I wanted a map where it is possible to
see where the inversion is at a glance. The Oklahoma mesonet link posted
earlier is like what I had in mind. Your link provides useful data, but
requires clicking on a bunch of points to actually see the data. The data
also seems sparse compared to the data on the Oklahoma link. Do they simply
take more readings (more stations) in Oklahoma? Being in the heart of
tornado country, I guess that would make sense.
Victor
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr. <
famartin1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> What do you mean by "map inversions"? There are often inversions at
> various levels. If you just want to see observed atmospheric profiles, I'd
> go here:
> http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
> To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues" <
> wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 8:37 AM
>
> Ah, good question. I'm interested in
> inversions that cause what I like
> to call sound mirages, where sound is reflected by total
> internal
> reflection or refracted back to the ground. So which level
> would be
> most relevant? I'm guessing below a mile or so, probably
> even below
> 1000 feet.
>
> The cold front that blew through Austin yesterday seems to
> have qualified.
>
> Victor
>
> On 12/22/13, Ted Lum <gladstonefamily37.net@tedlum.com>
> wrote:
> > What kind of stratification are you looking for? Five
> and 30 feet AGL or
> > 3000 to 9000 feet AGL?
> >
> > You might try aviation weather products like a winds
> aloft forecast:
> >
> > http://aviationweather.gov/products/nws/ftworth
> >
> > On 12/21/2013 11:17 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
> >> Thanks. Now if only it showed Texas instead of
> Oklahoma. :)
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM, TJ <tjslagle@cox.net
> >> <mailto:tjslagle@cox.net>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.mesonet.org/index.php/weather/map/current_inversion_map/air_temperature
> >>
> >> *From:*wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
> >> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> >> [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
> >> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>]
> *On Behalf Of
> >> *Victor Engel
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, December
> 21, 2013 7:32 PM
> >> *To:* Discussion of weather
> data quality issues
> >> *Subject:* [wxqc]
> Temperature Inversions
> >>
> >> Are there any websites that
> map temperature inversions?
> >>
> >> Victor
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> > believed to be clean.
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net
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>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the
> author.
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net
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>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 12:20:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Raymond C. Martin, Jr." <famartin1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID:
<1387743600.28267.YahooMailBasic@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
The Oklahoma Mesonet map only gives information on very low level
inversions, the lowest 30 feet of the atmosphere. They are simply
measuring the temperature on top of the anemometer mast and at normal
ground level (5 feet), and making a comparison; if the higher one is
warmer, then they declare inversion to be present.
The link I gave you is for weather balloon soundings. They are, due
to cost involved, necessarily far apart. You could get more dense
data from ACARS information taken by descending/ascending planes, but
I think that's not yet available to the public since its all recorded
by private airlines.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues"
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 12:04 PM
Map was a verb in my original
post. I wanted a map where it is possible to see where the
inversion is at a glance. The Oklahoma mesonet link posted
earlier is like what I had in mind. Your link provides
useful data, but requires clicking on a bunch of points to
actually see the data. The data also seems sparse compared
to the data on the Oklahoma link. Do they simply take more
readings (more stations) in Oklahoma? Being in the heart of
tornado country, I guess that would make sense.
Victor
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at
12:08 PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr. <famartin1@yahoo.com>
wrote:
What
do you mean by "map inversions"? ?There are often
inversions at various levels. ?If you just want to see
observed atmospheric profiles, I'd go here:
http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com>
wrote:
?Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
?To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues"
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
?Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 8:37 AM
?Ah, good question. I'm interested in
?inversions that cause what I like
?to call sound mirages, where sound is reflected by total
?internal
?reflection or refracted back to the ground. So which
level
?would be
?most relevant? I'm guessing below a mile or so,
probably
?even below
?1000 feet.
?The cold front that blew through Austin yesterday seems
to
?have qualified.
?Victor
?On 12/22/13, Ted Lum <gladstonefamily37.net@tedlum.com>
?wrote:
?> What kind of stratification are you looking for?
Five
?and 30 feet AGL or
?> 3000 to 9000 feet AGL?
?>
?> You might try aviation weather products like a winds
?aloft forecast:
?>
?> http://aviationweather.gov/products/nws/ftworth
?>
?> On 12/21/2013 11:17 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
?>> Thanks. Now if only it showed Texas instead of
?Oklahoma. :)
?>>
?>>
?>> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM, TJ <tjslagle@cox.net
?>> <mailto:tjslagle@cox.net>>
?wrote:
?>>
?>>
?>> http://www.mesonet.org/index.php/weather/map/current_inversion_map/air_temperature
?>>
?>>? ???*From:*wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
?>>? ???<mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
?>>? ???[mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
?>>? ???<mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>]
?*On Behalf Of
?>>? ???*Victor Engel
?>>? ???*Sent:* Saturday, December
?21, 2013 7:32 PM
?>>? ???*To:* Discussion of weather
?data quality issues
?>>? ???*Subject:* [wxqc]
?Temperature Inversions
?>>
?>>? ???Are there any websites that
?map temperature inversions?
?>>
?>>? ???Victor
?>>
?>>
?>
?>
?> --
?> This message has been scanned for viruses and
?> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
?> believed to be clean.
?>
?>
?_______________________________________________
?wxqc mailing list
?Post messages to wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net
?To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
?http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
?To search the archives:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=008314629403309390388%3Aknlfnptih9u
?The contents of this message are the responsibility of
the
?author.
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 15:03:17 -0600
From: Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID:
<CAHLdQkmQv-H1R+qcheqCVygUWDDaF_rUTTvQ5kgGePiE3MbVWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yeah, I noticed that after I posted.
Victor
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr. <famartin1@yahoo.com
> wrote:
> The Oklahoma Mesonet map only gives information on very low level
> inversions, the lowest 30 feet of the atmosphere. They are simply
> measuring the temperature on top of the anemometer mast and at normal
> ground level (5 feet), and making a comparison; if the higher one is
> warmer, then they declare inversion to be present.
>
> The link I gave you is for weather balloon soundings. They are, due to
> cost involved, necessarily far apart. You could get more dense data from
> ACARS information taken by descending/ascending planes, but I think that's
> not yet available to the public since its all recorded by private airlines.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
> To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues" <
> wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 12:04 PM
>
> Map was a verb in my original
> post. I wanted a map where it is possible to see where the
> inversion is at a glance. The Oklahoma mesonet link posted
> earlier is like what I had in mind. Your link provides
> useful data, but requires clicking on a bunch of points to
> actually see the data. The data also seems sparse compared
> to the data on the Oklahoma link. Do they simply take more
> readings (more stations) in Oklahoma? Being in the heart of
> tornado country, I guess that would make sense.
>
> Victor
>
> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at
> 12:08 PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr. <famartin1@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> What
> do you mean by "map inversions"? There are often
> inversions at various levels. If you just want to see
> observed atmospheric profiles, I'd go here:
>
>
> http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
>
> To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues"
> <wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
>
> Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 8:37 AM
>
>
>
> Ah, good question. I'm interested in
>
> inversions that cause what I like
>
> to call sound mirages, where sound is reflected by total
>
> internal
>
> reflection or refracted back to the ground. So which
> level
>
> would be
>
> most relevant? I'm guessing below a mile or so,
> probably
>
> even below
>
> 1000 feet.
>
>
>
> The cold front that blew through Austin yesterday seems
> to
>
> have qualified.
>
>
>
> Victor
>
>
>
> On 12/22/13, Ted Lum <gladstonefamily37.net@tedlum.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> > What kind of stratification are you looking for?
> Five
>
> and 30 feet AGL or
>
> > 3000 to 9000 feet AGL?
>
> >
>
> > You might try aviation weather products like a winds
>
> aloft forecast:
>
> >
>
> > http://aviationweather.gov/products/nws/ftworth
>
> >
>
> > On 12/21/2013 11:17 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
>
> >> Thanks. Now if only it showed Texas instead of
>
> Oklahoma. :)
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM, TJ <tjslagle@cox.net
>
> >> <mailto:tjslagle@cox.net>>
>
> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
> http://www.mesonet.org/index.php/weather/map/current_inversion_map/air_temperature
>
> >>
>
> >> *From:*wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
>
> >> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
>
> >> [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
>
> >> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>]
>
> *On Behalf Of
>
> >> *Victor Engel
>
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, December
>
> 21, 2013 7:32 PM
>
> >> *To:* Discussion of weather
>
> data quality issues
>
> >> *Subject:* [wxqc]
>
> Temperature Inversions
>
> >>
>
> >> Are there any websites that
>
> map temperature inversions?
>
> >>
>
> >> Victor
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
>
> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>
> > believed to be clean.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> wxqc mailing list
>
> Post messages to wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net
>
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
>
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> To search the archives:
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>
>
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of
> the
>
> author.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> wxqc mailing list
>
> Post messages to wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net
>
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
>
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
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>
>
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the
> author.
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Post messages to wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net
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>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 16:05:30 -0500
From: Steve Brueck <stephenrbrueck@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID:
<CAN5AtgfxK99=0wuLfCUY1Wu-miD=yQA5RvEzE8zVGuKoDnJXxA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have a couple of messages awaiting moderator approval. They are images
from the AmericanWX weather forum model center. But both messages have to
do with vertical cross sections. These are what's available
[image: Inline image 1]
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr. <famartin1@yahoo.com
> wrote:
> The Oklahoma Mesonet map only gives information on very low level
> inversions, the lowest 30 feet of the atmosphere. They are simply
> measuring the temperature on top of the anemometer mast and at normal
> ground level (5 feet), and making a comparison; if the higher one is
> warmer, then they declare inversion to be present.
>
> The link I gave you is for weather balloon soundings. They are, due to
> cost involved, necessarily far apart. You could get more dense data from
> ACARS information taken by descending/ascending planes, but I think that's
> not yet available to the public since its all recorded by private airlines.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
> To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues" <
> wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 12:04 PM
>
> Map was a verb in my original
> post. I wanted a map where it is possible to see where the
> inversion is at a glance. The Oklahoma mesonet link posted
> earlier is like what I had in mind. Your link provides
> useful data, but requires clicking on a bunch of points to
> actually see the data. The data also seems sparse compared
> to the data on the Oklahoma link. Do they simply take more
> readings (more stations) in Oklahoma? Being in the heart of
> tornado country, I guess that would make sense.
>
> Victor
>
> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at
> 12:08 PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr. <famartin1@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> What
> do you mean by "map inversions"? There are often
> inversions at various levels. If you just want to see
> observed atmospheric profiles, I'd go here:
>
>
> http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
>
> To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues"
> <wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
>
> Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 8:37 AM
>
>
>
> Ah, good question. I'm interested in
>
> inversions that cause what I like
>
> to call sound mirages, where sound is reflected by total
>
> internal
>
> reflection or refracted back to the ground. So which
> level
>
> would be
>
> most relevant? I'm guessing below a mile or so,
> probably
>
> even below
>
> 1000 feet.
>
>
>
> The cold front that blew through Austin yesterday seems
> to
>
> have qualified.
>
>
>
> Victor
>
>
>
> On 12/22/13, Ted Lum <gladstonefamily37.net@tedlum.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> > What kind of stratification are you looking for?
> Five
>
> and 30 feet AGL or
>
> > 3000 to 9000 feet AGL?
>
> >
>
> > You might try aviation weather products like a winds
>
> aloft forecast:
>
> >
>
> > http://aviationweather.gov/products/nws/ftworth
>
> >
>
> > On 12/21/2013 11:17 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
>
> >> Thanks. Now if only it showed Texas instead of
>
> Oklahoma. :)
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM, TJ <tjslagle@cox.net
>
> >> <mailto:tjslagle@cox.net>>
>
> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
> http://www.mesonet.org/index.php/weather/map/current_inversion_map/air_temperature
>
> >>
>
> >> *From:*wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
>
> >> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
>
> >> [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
>
> >> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>]
>
> *On Behalf Of
>
> >> *Victor Engel
>
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, December
>
> 21, 2013 7:32 PM
>
> >> *To:* Discussion of weather
>
> data quality issues
>
> >> *Subject:* [wxqc]
>
> Temperature Inversions
>
> >>
>
> >> Are there any websites that
>
> map temperature inversions?
>
> >>
>
> >> Victor
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
>
> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>
> > believed to be clean.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> wxqc mailing list
>
> Post messages to wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net
>
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
>
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> To search the archives:
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>
>
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of
> the
>
> author.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
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> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the
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>
>
>
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> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 18:17:29 -0500
From: Roy Clark <wvwxcr@gmail.com>
Subject: [wxqc] Power outage
To: cwop-support@noaa.gov, Leigh Cheatwood-Harris
<leigh.k.cheatwood@noaa.gov>, Discussion of weather data quality
issues <wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID: <52B77309.7090203@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
My CWOP station was down from 2amEST Sunday unil 1pmEST Sunday,
this was do to power failure from the severe storms lastnight.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 23:19:36 -0800
From: "Clay Jackson" <n7qnm-lists@nwlink.com>
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: "'Discussion of weather data quality issues'"
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID: <004c01ceffaf$55dd9df0$0198d9d0$@nwlink.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Since I?m in an area (Lower Yakima Valley in Washington State) that gets
VERY frequent inversions during the winter, I?ll jump in here. I?d also
be very interested in finding a good source of inversion data ? among other
things, inversions impact VHF (30Mhz) and above radio propagation.
That?s important to me because my weather station (AU155/N7QNM-10) is ?APRS
ONLY?. It?s solar powered with no link to ?the world? except a 5W
transmitter into a pretty low-gain (3DbI) vertical antenna that?s 20? AGL.
The nearest (right now, I?m in the process of fixing that) ?iGate?
(APRS->Internet gateway) is 46 miles from me, at an elevation of about
2,500? MSL (I?m at about 600?). That?s marginal in GOOD conditions. When
we get an inversion (usually at about 1,000? MSL) it traps the radio waves
BELOW the inversion and so my weather observations ?disappear? from the
network.
I?ve actually done a few ?informal? surveys using the thermometer in my car
? I?m about ? of a mile horizontally from the top of a plateau (Horse Heaven
Hills) that rises from 600? MSL to about 1,500? MSL. Earlier this year, I
measured a 6 degree difference between the top of hill (42 degrees) and
where we are (36 degrees). About a week ago, after a really cold spell, I
measured a difference of almost 15 degrees, 47 on top (2,250 ? MSL), 32 at
the valley floor (about 900? MSL) along Interstate 82 between Manastash
Ridge and Ellensburg, WA.
Wind is another interesting phenomena during inversions ? one might expect
an inversion would only happen during ?flat calm? conditions. However,
I?ve seen up to 10 knots here in the valley in the middle of an inversion,
with 0-2 knots ?on top?. I?m pretty sure what I?m seeing is (air) flow
along the valley floor that?s not really being impacted by ?macro? level
conditions (I think there?s a technical term for that, but haven?t
researched it yet).
I?m trying to find a landowner at the top of the ridge that will let me put
up another weather station (and an Amateur Radio Repeater).
So ? if anyone comes up with something (or a cheap, legal way to do
soundings); please post it here :)
Clay Jackson
N7QNM
From: wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
[mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of Steve Brueck
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 1:06 PM
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
I have a couple of messages awaiting moderator approval. They are images
from the AmericanWX weather forum model center. But both messages have to do
with vertical cross sections. These are what's available
<http://www.daculaweather.com/stuff/signature_email_2.png>
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr. <famartin1@yahoo.com
<mailto:famartin1@yahoo.com> > wrote:
The Oklahoma Mesonet map only gives information on very low level
inversions, the lowest 30 feet of the atmosphere. They are simply measuring
the temperature on top of the anemometer mast and at normal ground level (5
feet), and making a comparison; if the higher one is warmer, then they
declare inversion to be present.
The link I gave you is for weather balloon soundings. They are, due to cost
involved, necessarily far apart. You could get more dense data from ACARS
information taken by descending/ascending planes, but I think that's not yet
available to the public since its all recorded by private airlines.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com <mailto:brillig@gmail.com>
> wrote:
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues"
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net <mailto:wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net> >
Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 12:04 PM
Map was a verb in my original
post. I wanted a map where it is possible to see where the
inversion is at a glance. The Oklahoma mesonet link posted
earlier is like what I had in mind. Your link provides
useful data, but requires clicking on a bunch of points to
actually see the data. The data also seems sparse compared
to the data on the Oklahoma link. Do they simply take more
readings (more stations) in Oklahoma? Being in the heart of
tornado country, I guess that would make sense.
Victor
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at
12:08 PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr. <famartin1@yahoo.com
<mailto:famartin1@yahoo.com> >
wrote:
What
do you mean by "map inversions"? There are often
inversions at various levels. If you just want to see
observed atmospheric profiles, I'd go here:
http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com
<mailto:brillig@gmail.com> >
wrote:
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues"
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net <mailto:wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net> >
Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 8:37 AM
Ah, good question. I'm interested in
inversions that cause what I like
to call sound mirages, where sound is reflected by total
internal
reflection or refracted back to the ground. So which
level
would be
most relevant? I'm guessing below a mile or so,
probably
even below
1000 feet.
The cold front that blew through Austin yesterday seems
to
have qualified.
Victor
On 12/22/13, Ted Lum <gladstonefamily37.net@tedlum.com
<mailto:gladstonefamily37.net@tedlum.com> >
wrote:
> What kind of stratification are you looking for?
Five
and 30 feet AGL or
> 3000 to 9000 feet AGL?
>
> You might try aviation weather products like a winds
aloft forecast:
>
> http://aviationweather.gov/products/nws/ftworth
>
> On 12/21/2013 11:17 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
>> Thanks. Now if only it showed Texas instead of
Oklahoma. :)
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM, TJ <tjslagle@cox.net
<mailto:tjslagle@cox.net>
>> <mailto:tjslagle@cox.net <mailto:tjslagle@cox.net> >>
wrote:
>>
>>
>>
http://www.mesonet.org/index.php/weather/map/current_inversion_map/air_tempe
rature
>>
>> *From:*wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
<mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
>> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
<mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net> >
>> [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
<mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
>> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
<mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net> >]
*On Behalf Of
>> *Victor Engel
>> *Sent:* Saturday, December
21, 2013 7:32 PM
>> *To:* Discussion of weather
data quality issues
>> *Subject:* [wxqc]
Temperature Inversions
>>
>> Are there any websites that
map temperature inversions?
>>
>> Victor
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 01:22:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "Raymond C. Martin, Jr." <famartin1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID:
<1387790554.89483.YahooMailBasic@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
The wind you observe in the valley is termed a "drainage wind".
Basically, just like you see in your house, the cold air flows down to
the lowest point it can find.
To get "model" (computer simulated) soundings, you can try here:
http://vortex.plymouth.edu/grbsnd.html
Note these are generally used for forecasting as they come from the
weather "models" used to make weather forecasts. The NAM/WRF is
likely to be most accurate with showing inversions, but none of them
is going to be "perfect". There are limitations but I think the page
explains most of them.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 12/22/13, Clay Jackson <n7qnm-lists@nwlink.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: "'Discussion of weather data quality issues'"
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 11:19 PM
Since I?m in an area
(Lower Yakima Valley in Washington State) that gets VERY
frequent inversions during the winter, I?ll jump in
here.??? I?d also be very interested in finding a
good source of inversion data ? among other things,
inversions impact VHF (30Mhz) and above radio
propagation.?? ?That?s important to me
because my weather station (AU155/N7QNM-10) is ?APRS
ONLY?.? It?s solar powered with no link to
?the world? except a 5W transmitter into a
pretty low-gain (3DbI) vertical antenna that?s
20? AGL.? The nearest (right now, I?m in the
process of fixing that) ?iGate?
(APRS->Internet gateway) is 46 miles from me, at an
elevation of about 2,500? MSL (I?m at about
?600?).?? That?s marginal in GOOD
conditions.? When we get an inversion (usually at about
1,000? MSL)? it traps the radio waves BELOW the
inversion and so my weather observations
?disappear? from the network. ?I?ve actually done a few
?informal? surveys using the thermometer in my
car ? I?m about ? of a mile horizontally from
the top of a plateau (Horse Heaven Hills) that rises from
600? MSL to about 1,500? MSL.?? Earlier this
year, I measured a 6 degree difference between the top of
hill (42 degrees) and where we are (36 degrees).?? ?About
a week ago, after a really cold spell, I measured a
difference of almost 15 degrees, 47 on top (2,250 ?
MSL), 32 at the valley floor (about 900? MSL) along
Interstate 82 between Manastash Ridge and Ellensburg,
WA. ?Wind is another interesting
phenomena during inversions ? one might expect an
inversion would? only happen during ?flat calm?
conditions.? ?However, ?I?ve seen up to 10 knots
here in the valley in the middle of an inversion, with 0-2
knots ?on top?.?? I?m pretty sure what
I?m seeing is (air) flow along the valley floor
that?s not really being impacted by
?macro? level conditions (I think there?s
a? technical term for that, but haven?t researched it
yet). ?I?m trying to find a
landowner at the top of the ridge that will let me put up
another weather station (and an Amateur Radio
Repeater). ?So ? if anyone comes up
with something (or a cheap, legal way to do soundings);?
please post it here J ?Clay JacksonN7QNM ? ? ?From:
wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
[mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf
Of Steve Brueck
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 1:06 PM
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature
Inversions
?I have a
couple of messages awaiting moderator approval. They are
images from the AmericanWX weather forum model center. But
both messages have to do with vertical cross sections. These
are what's available ?
? ?On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 3:20
PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr. <famartin1@yahoo.com>
wrote:The Oklahoma Mesonet map only
gives information on very low level inversions, the lowest
30 feet of the atmosphere. ?They are simply measuring
the temperature on top of the anemometer mast and at normal
ground level (5 feet), and making a comparison; if the
higher one is warmer, then they declare inversion to be
present.
The link I gave you is for weather balloon soundings.
?They are, due to cost involved, necessarily far apart.
?You could get more dense data from ACARS information
taken by descending/ascending planes, but I think that's
not yet available to the public since its all recorded by
private airlines.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com>
wrote:
?Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
?To: "Discussion of weather data quality
issues" <wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>?Date: Sunday, December
22, 2013, 12:04 PM
?Map was a verb in my original
?post. I wanted a map where it is possible to see where
the
?inversion is at a glance. The Oklahoma mesonet link
posted
?earlier is like what I had in mind. Your link
provides
?useful data, but requires clicking on a bunch of
points to
?actually see the data. The data also seems sparse
compared
?to the data on the Oklahoma link. Do they simply take
more
?readings (more stations) in Oklahoma? Being in the
heart of
?tornado country, I guess that would make sense.
?Victor
?On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at
?12:08 PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr. <famartin1@yahoo.com>
?wrote:
?What
?do you mean by "map inversions"? ?There
are often
?inversions at various levels. ?If you just want
to see
?observed atmospheric profiles, I'd go here:
?http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
?--------------------------------------------
?On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com>
?wrote:
??Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
??To: "Discussion of weather data quality
issues"
?<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
??Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 8:37 AM
??Ah, good question. I'm interested in
??inversions that cause what I like
??to call sound mirages, where sound is reflected
by total
??internal
??reflection or refracted back to the ground. So
which
?level
??would be
??most relevant? I'm guessing below a mile or
so,
?probably
??even below
??1000 feet.
??The cold front that blew through Austin
yesterday seems
?to
??have qualified.
??Victor
??On 12/22/13, Ted Lum <gladstonefamily37.net@tedlum.com>
??wrote:
??> What kind of stratification are you looking
for?
?Five
??and 30 feet AGL or
??> 3000 to 9000 feet AGL?
??>
??> You might try aviation weather products
like a winds
??aloft forecast:
??>
??> http://aviationweather.gov/products/nws/ftworth
??>
??> On 12/21/2013 11:17 PM, Victor Engel
wrote:
??>> Thanks. Now if only it showed Texas
instead of
??Oklahoma. :)
??>>
??>>
??>> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM, TJ
<tjslagle@cox.net
??>> <mailto:tjslagle@cox.net>>
??wrote:
??>>
??>>
??>> http://www.mesonet.org/index.php/weather/map/current_inversion_map/air_temperature
??>>
??>>? ???*From:*wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
??>>? ???<mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
??>>? ???[mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
??>>? ???<mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>]
??*On Behalf Of
??>>? ???*Victor Engel
??>>? ???*Sent:*
Saturday, December
??21, 2013 7:32 PM
??>>? ???*To:*
Discussion of weather
??data quality issues
??>>? ???*Subject:*
[wxqc]
??Temperature Inversions
??>>
??>>? ???Are there any
websites that
??map temperature inversions?
??>>
??>>? ???Victor
??>>
??>>
??>
??>
??> --
??> This message has been scanned for viruses
and
??> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
??> believed to be clean.
??>
??>
??_______________________________________________
??wxqc mailing list
??Post messages to wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net
??To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please
go to:
??http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
??To search the archives:
http://www.googlecom/coop/cse?cx=008314629403309390388%3Aknlfnptih9u
??The contents of this message are the
responsibility of
?the
??author.
?_______________________________________________
?wxqc mailing list
?Post messages to wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net
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to:
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?author.
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Follows-----
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?author.
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 08:57:09 -0600
From: Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
<wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID:
<CAHLdQknGc=Nmcp4=FQkEkF02HW0sDOR4qK9M0BYkJn=m=WEV9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
A quick search turns up this.
http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA484750
On 12/23/13, Clay Jackson <n7qnm-lists@nwlink.com> wrote:
> Since I?m in an area (Lower Yakima Valley in Washington State) that gets
> VERY frequent inversions during the winter, I?ll jump in here. I?d also
> be very interested in finding a good source of inversion data ? among other
> things, inversions impact VHF (30Mhz) and above radio propagation.
>
>
>
> That?s important to me because my weather station (AU155/N7QNM-10) is ?APRS
> ONLY?. It?s solar powered with no link to ?the world? except a 5W
> transmitter into a pretty low-gain (3DbI) vertical antenna that?s 20? AGL.
> The nearest (right now, I?m in the process of fixing that) ?iGate?
> (APRS->Internet gateway) is 46 miles from me, at an elevation of about
> 2,500? MSL (I?m at about 600?). That?s marginal in GOOD conditions.
> When
> we get an inversion (usually at about 1,000? MSL) it traps the radio waves
> BELOW the inversion and so my weather observations ?disappear? from the
> network.
>
>
>
> I?ve actually done a few ?informal? surveys using the thermometer in my car
> ? I?m about ? of a mile horizontally from the top of a plateau (Horse
> Heaven
> Hills) that rises from 600? MSL to about 1,500? MSL. Earlier this year, I
> measured a 6 degree difference between the top of hill (42 degrees) and
> where we are (36 degrees). About a week ago, after a really cold spell,
> I
> measured a difference of almost 15 degrees, 47 on top (2,250 ? MSL), 32 at
> the valley floor (about 900? MSL) along Interstate 82 between Manastash
> Ridge and Ellensburg, WA.
>
>
>
> Wind is another interesting phenomena during inversions ? one might expect
> an inversion would only happen during ?flat calm? conditions. However,
> I?ve seen up to 10 knots here in the valley in the middle of an inversion,
> with 0-2 knots ?on top?. I?m pretty sure what I?m seeing is (air) flow
> along the valley floor that?s not really being impacted by ?macro? level
> conditions (I think there?s a technical term for that, but haven?t
> researched it yet).
>
>
>
> I?m trying to find a landowner at the top of the ridge that will let me put
> up another weather station (and an Amateur Radio Repeater).
>
>
>
> So ? if anyone comes up with something (or a cheap, legal way to do
> soundings); please post it here :)
>
>
>
> Clay Jackson
>
> N7QNM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
> [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of Steve Brueck
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 1:06 PM
> To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
>
>
>
> I have a couple of messages awaiting moderator approval. They are images
> from the AmericanWX weather forum model center. But both messages have to
> do
> with vertical cross sections. These are what's available
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.daculaweather.com/stuff/signature_email_2.png>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr.
> <famartin1@yahoo.com
> <mailto:famartin1@yahoo.com> > wrote:
>
> The Oklahoma Mesonet map only gives information on very low level
> inversions, the lowest 30 feet of the atmosphere. They are simply
> measuring
> the temperature on top of the anemometer mast and at normal ground level (5
> feet), and making a comparison; if the higher one is warmer, then they
> declare inversion to be present.
>
> The link I gave you is for weather balloon soundings. They are, due to
> cost
> involved, necessarily far apart. You could get more dense data from ACARS
> information taken by descending/ascending planes, but I think that's not
> yet
> available to the public since its all recorded by private airlines.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com
> <mailto:brillig@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
> To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues"
> <wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net <mailto:wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net> >
>
> Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 12:04 PM
>
>
> Map was a verb in my original
> post. I wanted a map where it is possible to see where the
> inversion is at a glance. The Oklahoma mesonet link posted
> earlier is like what I had in mind. Your link provides
> useful data, but requires clicking on a bunch of points to
> actually see the data. The data also seems sparse compared
> to the data on the Oklahoma link. Do they simply take more
> readings (more stations) in Oklahoma? Being in the heart of
> tornado country, I guess that would make sense.
>
> Victor
>
> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at
> 12:08 PM, Raymond C. Martin, Jr. <famartin1@yahoo.com
> <mailto:famartin1@yahoo.com> >
> wrote:
>
> What
> do you mean by "map inversions"? There are often
> inversions at various levels. If you just want to see
> observed atmospheric profiles, I'd go here:
>
>
> http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> On Sun, 12/22/13, Victor Engel <brillig@gmail.com
> <mailto:brillig@gmail.com> >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Temperature Inversions
>
> To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues"
> <wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net <mailto:wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net> >
>
> Date: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 8:37 AM
>
>
>
> Ah, good question. I'm interested in
>
> inversions that cause what I like
>
> to call sound mirages, where sound is reflected by total
>
> internal
>
> reflection or refracted back to the ground. So which
> level
>
> would be
>
> most relevant? I'm guessing below a mile or so,
> probably
>
> even below
>
> 1000 feet.
>
>
>
> The cold front that blew through Austin yesterday seems
> to
>
> have qualified.
>
>
>
> Victor
>
>
>
> On 12/22/13, Ted Lum <gladstonefamily37.net@tedlum.com
> <mailto:gladstonefamily37.net@tedlum.com> >
>
> wrote:
>
> > What kind of stratification are you looking for?
> Five
>
> and 30 feet AGL or
>
> > 3000 to 9000 feet AGL?
>
> >
>
> > You might try aviation weather products like a winds
>
> aloft forecast:
>
> >
>
> > http://aviationweather.gov/products/nws/ftworth
>
> >
>
> > On 12/21/2013 11:17 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
>
> >> Thanks. Now if only it showed Texas instead of
>
> Oklahoma. :)
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM, TJ <tjslagle@cox.net
> <mailto:tjslagle@cox.net>
>
> >> <mailto:tjslagle@cox.net <mailto:tjslagle@cox.net> >>
>
> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
> http://www.mesonet.org/index.php/weather/map/current_inversion_map/air_tempe
> rature
>
> >>
>
> >> *From:*wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
>
> >> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net> >
>
> >> [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net>
>
> >> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net
> <mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net> >]
>
> *On Behalf Of
>
> >> *Victor Engel
>
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, December
>
> 21, 2013 7:32 PM
>
> >> *To:* Discussion of weather
>
> data quality issues
>
> >> *Subject:* [wxqc]
>
> Temperature Inversions
>
> >>
>
> >> Are there any websites that
>
> map temperature inversions?
>
> >>
>
> >> Victor
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
>
> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>
> > believed to be clean.
>
> >
>
> >
>
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